tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post3918070313293458064..comments2024-02-26T08:43:47.488-08:00Comments on Domesticated: Subcultural AppropriationThe HouseCathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-75993564621570457552021-02-20T13:35:27.704-08:002021-02-20T13:35:27.704-08:00You are a fucking knob.You are a fucking knob.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09995577363333116372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-8493876385641846052016-06-02T17:32:04.916-07:002016-06-02T17:32:04.916-07:00As long as something is genuine, I don't mind ...As long as something is genuine, I don't mind it. It is the trend-hopping appropriation of things (and in parallel to the appropriation of Goth, the appropriation of occult and Neo-Pagan symbolism), that bothers me. The HouseCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-4143727904857107002016-05-31T18:16:19.306-07:002016-05-31T18:16:19.306-07:00Goth can trace its lineage from both of those thin...Goth can trace its lineage from both of those things - punk is Goth's direct subcultural ancestor; it was an outgrowth of Punk as 'positive punk' or 'post-punk', and many of the original "Goth" musicians like The Damned or Siouxsie and the Banshees regarded themselves as punks - Goth is not an appropriation of punk, it is an evolution and continuation of punk. <br /><br />The use of Christian symbols in Goth is a complex matter. It is appropriation when it is being taken from it context by a group outside that context, and Goth is a group with a very complex relationship to the context the symbolism and iconography comes from. Some if it can be traced through the legacy of Gothic architecture - originally ecclesiastical although it was also used in castles such as Rait and Haverford west - and how those buildings became the settings for Gothic novels, hence the term 'Gothic' becoming used for the supernatural. Christianity also has a huge part in the parent culture to which Goth is the sub-culture. Even though England (where Goth originated) is now a mixture of religions, and Christianity is held by just under half the population, for centuries it was pretty much the whole population - Goth has also mostly thrived in countries with a strong link to Christianity in their culture - America, various countries in Europe, Brazil, with Japan being a notable exception - and therefore the iconography of those parent cultures, and especially the religious and spiritual aspects of those parent cultures are heavily coloured by Christianity. However, this is not the only approach to Christian symbols taken by members of the Goth subculture, and I think where Christian iconography is worn in an ironic manner, or in a deliberately sacreligious manner, then it can cross over into appropriation and even misappropriation. <br /><br />For the most part, however, anachronistic references within Goth are a sub-culture focusing on historical aspects of its own parent culture, rather than appropriating aspects of a different culture. The HouseCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-52316042331725161422016-02-06T07:29:07.171-08:002016-02-06T07:29:07.171-08:00Goth appropriates many elements of christianity su...Goth appropriates many elements of christianity such as the crosses, punk or the neo-baroque style. Never forget that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-78284881114475566662015-11-08T07:46:46.460-08:002015-11-08T07:46:46.460-08:00I don't really have a problem with people wear...I don't really have a problem with people wearing things, it's just when it communicates something inaccurate about the person, it can make things awkward. Goth fashion used to be a signifier that someone else in the sea of normality shared similar values and tastes to you, at least partially, and alleviated that sense of alienation that can occur, but now it is less guaranteed that it's a signifier of anything. <br /><br />My biggest problem is with those who would literally have mocked me a few years ago and now are jumping on the pseudo-Gothic bandwaggon. The HouseCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-44104929686879126382015-11-08T07:42:45.709-08:002015-11-08T07:42:45.709-08:00Feel free to comment years after I post something!...Feel free to comment years after I post something! I still read my posts and reply :) The HouseCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-7720203758042034092015-11-08T07:42:20.322-08:002015-11-08T07:42:20.322-08:00Good to know I appear on Google :) I'm not the...Good to know I appear on Google :) I'm not the only person who gets annoyed when the mainstream appropriates Goth, but I'm probably one of the few who has spoken about it in the new language of the contemporary social justice movement (although as it can get quite... self-contradictory and extremist, it is a movement whose principles I agree with, but not always its practices). This is not a new thing to have happened to our subculture; it is an issue and double-edged sword that resurfaces about once a decade. I think this time 'round it has been a more... prolonged adoption, and I am starting to wonder if it actually signifies a mainstream adoption of a few Gothic values. The HouseCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-38041863653593167372015-11-08T07:38:56.667-08:002015-11-08T07:38:56.667-08:00Thank-you :) Thank-you :) The HouseCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-24875646625025068932015-08-06T23:51:33.457-07:002015-08-06T23:51:33.457-07:00I was searching for "subcultural appropriatio...I was searching for "subcultural appropriation" on google as I was wondering if the subject was talked about, as it has been in my head for quite a while. I found your blog and read this entry. I loved it, I don't think I could have put it better :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-54286049083876399292014-06-14T14:03:23.514-07:002014-06-14T14:03:23.514-07:00It's been a year since you've written this...It's been a year since you've written this, but I had to comment, because this article is SO validating. Thank you for taking the time to write this well-articulated, but also non-judgmental, piece. <br /><br />xEvehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14381862927475091526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-42987024088054108662014-01-12T04:31:43.666-08:002014-01-12T04:31:43.666-08:00I don't see anything wrong with being an aesth...I don't see anything wrong with being an aesthetic butterfly. It took me a while to commit to one subculture, and to be perfectly honest, I don't think that one necessarily has to chose a single subculture or aesthetic if there's a genuine interest in several. I think a lot of Goth-hybrid styles (cybergoth, Gothic Lolita, etc.) have come from people with a foot in more than one community, and I like how new things keep evolving out of the general "alternative" mix :)<br /><br />The behaviour you describe certainly comes over as obnoxious. Perhaps the person feels guilty about what they did and does not want to accept those actions as part of who they are now, but it seems like an apology would be in better order, and denying it only furthering the sense of insult. The HouseCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07783576090040274742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-83933643187857505542013-03-10T18:55:22.122-07:002013-03-10T18:55:22.122-07:00You have made some good points about this, I was g...You have made some good points about this, I was going to make a similar, though less in-depth, post about this very subject. The one thing that I really agree with you on is that it is irritating to see people who would have made fun of my appearance wearing the EXACT same thing now that it is trendy. This is frustrating, but I have chosen to not take fashion so seriously in my life. I am secure in myself and I know that I belong to the subculture regardless of what type of clothing I have on my body at any given time. I have decided to say to myself, "They're just CLOTHES." If people want to wear a Bauhaus shirt even though they have no idea what it is, then oh well. If you wear your Bauhaus shirt proudly because you are a big fan, great, but I don't think that it's that big of a deal in the end. Trends come and go and if you are secure in yourself it shouldn't matter to you what other people choose to wear. I just feel that other people's fashion choices are none of my business and my choices are none of anybody else's.Vulcan_Butterflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11347496680018156439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-59379801803042768082013-03-06T08:29:28.000-08:002013-03-06T08:29:28.000-08:00Thank you for taking the time to write this though...Thank you for taking the time to write this thoughtful article. <br /><br />Although I understand both the advantages and disadvantages of the commercialization of our aesthetic, I really don't like seeing it mainstreamed. Like you, I believe it would be nice if people understood the reasoning behind a certain look rather than just dressing some way because it's this month's latest trend. <br /><br />That said, I find that so-called hipsters, including those who are non Goth, tend to dress in ways that reflect their ideals--the people they really are anyway. Whenever I see one of these folks utilizing a bit of Goth aesthetic I feel that it's genuine. What these people do is totally fine with me. Nightwindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148270720593016700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-88230269097841662702013-03-05T20:49:27.293-08:002013-03-05T20:49:27.293-08:00I'd love to give this a standing ovation! But...I'd love to give this a standing ovation! But, whereas, I am alone at work, it wouldn't be the same. <br /><br />Thank you very much for this well written message. I hope many others read it and find it as brilliant as I doSpookie Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13408397412206788560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5406319356659344188.post-25606847456834865562013-03-05T15:33:42.344-08:002013-03-05T15:33:42.344-08:00This is very well put.
I am very pleased to see yo...This is very well put.<br />I am very pleased to see you touched on the subject of 'aesthetic butterflies' (which is an ingenious term!); I have many friends that I would consider such. They're very harmless people who just enjoy all kinds of clothes; I see no harm in it.<br /><br />I'm generally very stoic-- I live by the philosophy of live and let live =P<br />But deliberate and conscience hypocrisy seem to bring out the irritation in me. It doesn't compute when a person who has outwardly bullied me for my choices, suddenly praise me for them years later. Usually I can let it go if it ends there, but when they adamantly deny the past and convince others that the events were all in my head... then I find it hard to hold back.<br /><br />Thank you for writing this piece!Madame Mari Mortemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14092879436628518422noreply@blogger.com